-----Original Message-----
Hello J,
>> I think that the only thing that really
>> needs to be learned is the light touch.
For me, I would also add two more things. First the woman must follow. Second, both people must be willing to learn how to dance
with a partner.
1. The woman must follow.
(Principle of Partnership: the man invites and the woman follows)
http://www.partnershipdancing.com/w/w001/_web/book/p/partnership_dancing/mb/book/b00_03/03_23_partnership.aspx
2. No force.
(Law of Balance: everyone maintains their own balance)
http://www.partnershipdancing.com/w/w001/_web/book/p/partnership_dancing/mb/book/b00_03/04_10_law_of_balance.aspx
3. Willing to learn how to dance with a partner.
In my group that means the method of Partnership Dancing.
Other groups can have their own methods.
But it cannot be left up to the individual.
The group must have a consistent set of rules
that everyone knows and abides by. People do not
have to have mastered all the skills, but they must
be willing to accept the rules.
You Contra dance, right? It is a free-for-all out there. Pushing and pulling and not following. People do it and have fun. So, we
know there are no absolute requirements for changing partners.
What you and I are talking about is drawing a line. Drawing the line at no force is abritrary.
You are picking one rule that fits your expectations. As soon as you have one rule, other people are going to have other rules and
other expectations. As you rotate partners, people are going to fight with one another about how to do this or that. You would not
have solved much with the one rule.
I agree that the most important skills to aquire first are the woman follows and no use of force. These are the big bad things.
I consider the woman following more important than the avoidance of force. When the woman does not follow, the dance is a battle of
wills.
In my opinion, the woman not following is the biggest root cause of the partner dance issues.
The woman not following is what leads to the most frustration, not the use of force. The use of force is exacerbated because the
woman does not follow. If the woman follows, the use of force will be much less.
If the woman is not following, the people cannot dance together. They can dance near each other, but not with each other.
When the woman does not follow, it confuses both people and makes dancing well impossible.
When the woman does not follow, the people cannot improve.
...
I want the women to follow all the time, especially when the man is confused and does not know what to do.
For me, if people want to be in our rotation, they need to be willing to play by the rules of our rotation. That means (1) the woman
follows, (2) no force and (3) a willingness to learn the method of Partnership Dancing.
...
Principle of Universality: you use the same signals with every person in every dance.
http://www.partnershipdancing.com/w/w001/_web/book/p/partnership_dancing/mb/book/b00_03/03_22_universal.aspx
>> pulling her and it worked. I explained to her
>> how I could have gotten her to end up in the right place
"There is a name for what you are doing and it is not dancing. It is wrestling."
~ Billy Fajardo, World Champion Dancer and Instructor
http://www.partnershipdancing.com/w/w001/_web/book/p/partnership_dancing/mb/book/b00_03/03_11_safety.aspx
We want to do better than get to the right place around the right time. We are there to dance and we want to try to dance well and
have an opportunity to improve.
>> I think that I can dance in a rotation with anyone. In most cases, by
>> simply leading the best that I can the less-skilled women will improve
>> over time.
Absolutely
>> One is the woman who grasps my hand tightly. In that case, I would
>> disengage in a very obvious way, and if she did not get the message
>> after a while, I would just explain why it is important that each
>> partner can unilaterally disengage at any moment.
I do the same. If she grabs my hand at all, I disengage.
If she rocks back and tries to pull on me to help her come forward,
I let go. What I usually do is place my fingers on top of her wrist.
Most get the idea pretty fast.
>> The other is the woman who has no sense of frame and virtually no
>> dancing skills. That woman is going to need some kind of lessons. Of
>> course, that woman cannot dance with anyone so the issue is not really
>> switching or rotating partners.
If they are willing, it is possible to dance with a raw beginner,
by giving them a little quick instructions.
See the videos here of M.
http://www.israelipartnerdancing.com/w/w102/i/israelipartnerdancing_com/main/margaret.aspx
She is a new dancer. I taught her:
(1) She must follow at all times.
This is easy for beginners.
They are willing to trust you, because they do not know anything.
(2) No force. Everything she does, she does on her own.
This is easy for beginners. No force is natural.
(3) How to orient herself.
In open position, I tell her to keep her shoulders parallel to mine.
In closed position, she is to get into my arms.
(4) As we go along, I point out things, like maintain the connection,
do not reach, keep going.
There are eight or nine videos of her doing advanced Israeli partner dances with no instruction in the choreography, never having
seen the dance, not knowing how to dance.
She was fun to dance with, even though she had trouble taking any steps properly.
All she needed to know to be danceable with was the three items above.
Thanks for your thoughts,
Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: J
Andy,
You mention in your post that it may be difficult to rotate partners
when we have not learned how to dance together.
I think that the only thing that really needs to be learned is the light
touch. If everyone uses a light touch, and nobody dances with their
thumbs (thumb holds, that is), I think that rotation works fine.
Do you remember our recent discussion about the "pull her" step? D
told me that, even though they laughed everytime P said that, her
husband was really pulling her and it worked. I explained to her
how I could have gotten her to end up in the right place without pulling
her and she seemed to agree. If we could just get people to understand
that pushing and pulling is never the best option, then there would be
no reason to ever do it.
I think that I can dance in a rotation with anyone. In most cases, by
simply leading the best that I can the less-skilled women will improve
over time.
There are two exceptions.
One is the woman who grasps my hand tightly. In that case, I would
disengage in a very obvious way, and if she did not get the message
after a while, I would just explain why it is important that each
partner can unilaterally disengage at any moment.
The other is the woman who has no sense of frame and virtually no
dancing skills. That woman is going to need some kind of lessons. Of
course, that woman cannot dance with anyone so the issue is not really
switching or rotating partners.
J
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